Name: Huang Le

Age: 27

City: Shanghai

Can you introduce yourself?

My name is Huang Le. I work at the gallery. Sometimes I write art-related articles and assist artists on curating art projects.

Can you tell us more about your art experiences?

I went to study at China Academy of Art, Zhangjiang Campus in 2005. I studied Industrial Design. During higher education entrance exam preparation, the education very boring, and I started to become interested in art creation, especially oil painting. But I couldn’t get into the painting major at the art academy. I always had high rankings in design exams, but failed at the creative fine art majors. Then, also because of the influence from my parents’ careers, I thought I’d choose to study industrial design. But that was not working at all either, I’m not very good at making things. Actually, I also once dreamed of becoming an artist.

Then after my undergrad graduation, in order to deceive my parents, I applied for graduate study in art history. I am in fact kind of an underachiever. I like reading words and critics a lot, so I’m grateful for my art history education. But I didn’t become a critic or curator later. When I was in my first year of grad school, my professor introduced me to work at the Taopu storage house for ShanghART gallery, doing things like arranging artworks and writing introductions to artworks. My professor would bring me with him to visit artists, conduct interviews, and become friends with artists. For me, those were all very good experiences.  

What exactly do you do at the gallery?

A lot. I think it can be generally categorized into two to three areas.

For example, when we are organizing an exhibition, we need to read a lot of materials and develop a topic, there is a lot of planning that needs to be done. We don’t think of it as curating though, we think of it as making decisions and planning. And then, these thoughts need to be formed into texts. Most of the time, it’s about organizing materials, planning, and summarizing.

When we are actually executing exhibitions, there is some general work that needs to be done. Say, choosing art works, arranging logistics, etc. It can be very small but detailed work. Since we have very few people at the moment, sometimes we even need to measure the size of the art works ourselves. We have to ask the artist about the media of their work when we are not quite sure. Then we need to write the press releases, prepare artwork inventories, and send out exhibition information on Wechat, Weibo and Douban, as well as communicating with colleagues and briefing them on their duties.

One more thing is: once the exhibition is on, we need to promote it. For example, asking people to write about it, finding friends to come see the exhibition, or inviting our previous clients to see the exhibition so we can recommend new works to them.

In addition, there are artists that we wouldn’t work with right away, but we will pay attention to their work. There are also times that we go visit artists’ studios or go to other exhibitions, etc.

So this job allows you to meet a lot of young artists?

Not only young artists. There are many important senior artists, who are already very successful, but we go meet them too. There are many ways to form our own judgment and knowledge. But since we define ourselves as a young gallery, we for sure try to work more with young artists.

Though, we are repeatedly redefining the meaning of “young”. We won’t think “young” is simply being younger in age. Rather, it’s a state of mind. I think some people are definitely looking for that kind of mentality. In fact, I often see young people acting very “old”. It’s really strange, the language they use sounds old, and the topics they care about, even their whole mental state feels very old-fashioned. Anyway, we were said to be “not young” by the previous generation too.

When we want to make work look artsy, when we want to mimic something, we study it. But all study in the end is just learning what has already been done. If you are really a 20-something, the energy of this period would eventually reveal itself in the work. This is one of my recent experiences.

There is another kind of “youth” that is related to the vitality of creation, and that has nothing to do with one’s actual age. There is a saying about the life circle of Chinese artists. When you are in your 30s, 40s, and 50s, there’s probably a window of time where you need to complete something. You have to give people a report. You have to have a big exhibition. Then you may meet the standard of a successful artist. But I think there are still possibilities for being youthful and young, because contemporary art itself is very young in China.

What have you been up to lately?

Lately, I feel like I have been quite busy for a long time. Basically, it’s been continuously busy and messy. Recently, there was this one art fair, one group exhibition, and two projects. We decided to have such a packed schedule because we knew having shows opening during the art fair would bring more people to our space and spark discussions.

We don’t even know what we are busy doing, but really, it’s been very busy. Every day is very intense. Because we have just moved into this space, everything is pretty new, so we don’t know how many art works are needed to fill out the wall, and what’s the relationship with the space. There is such a long wall that needs to be filled up, we don’t know if we need two, three or four works, so it’s been quite a headache to figure it out. Plus, the space needs to be decorated too.

Can you financially fully support yourself by working at the gallery? I mean, since Shanghai is a very expensive city.

Yeah, enough to live, but only barely enough to live.

So do you have to work other jobs?

Actually, I do work on side jobs besides the gallery work. But it’s not for the sake of money. For example, my professor sometimes asks me to write articles for an auction house. But even if he doesn’t pay me, or doesn’t pay me until much later, I don’t really mind, because I’m curious to get to know other types of jobs. I would get very tired writing for them, I would work all night. But I think it’s really fun to see an actual work, even if it may be a fake sometimes.

We have actually been joking about having to think of five other ways to make a living every day, because I do feel that the money is not enough. Maybe many years later, when we are at another stage of life, when I’m more confident about my work and myself, I would be quite willing to try other work that can bring in extra income. Of course, I am confident that I can make more money from my current gallery job. I can be better at my job, or sell more paintings. But if I’m thinking about doing other jobs, it’s because I want life to be richer and more fun. Yeah, if I want to have fun, I’ll go try some other jobs.

What do you do with your spare time, when you are not working at the gallery?

House-keeping. And I always feel I’m neglecting my friends when I work too much, so I really want to spend more time with them. Or when I get more time, I go out of town to see my family and friends. But if I get only a day’s time, I stay in and do house-keeping work. Like today, basking in the sun, and doing housework. Our cat has never had a shower, so I was thinking I have to shower her when I have time. Yeah, things like this.

Have you ever thought about what kind of life you want to be living in 3-5 years?

I had just recently overthrown another plan before I made this new plan. So the current plan is probably to grow together with the gallery I’m working at, and make it better, and then, to study English, to be able to communicate and try writing in English. Oh, and travelling too.

Do you have pressure to get married?

Oh, every second. Once I wake up and open my eyes. But that’s something I can’t force, so just let it be. It’s not really pressure, but a thing. Sometimes, when you can’t think it through, it will become a troublesome thing. A lot of people think marriage is a pressure. Maybe it is, because then we have to think about the duties and responsibilities to support our parents’ families. Maybe we won’t be able to manage it. Then what? Maybe it is a kind of pressure. But me and my boyfriend are very good at planning dreams for the future.

What is your perspective of the current status of the Shanghai art community?

We have always thought that the number of people in the Shanghai art world is for sure smaller than in Beijing, and it’s less competitive here. I used to say that the professionalism of artists in Shanghai is lower than those in Beijing. But I’ve also been thinking lately that maybe the professionalism in Beijing is actually forced. Because the artists probably have to meet collectors every day, or the gallery will bring people to their studio every day. If he is a good artist, and he has different gallery visits every day, then naturally he would make documents of his work files and can be very standardized. But we would think he is actually becoming standardized himelf. I’m actually quite looking forward to seeing more professionalism in Shanghai artists. They are about the same age, and if they want to improve themselves, it’s more likely that they are creating their own standards. So it’s quite worth looking forward to.

Artists in Shanghai are countable, 20 or 30 of them? Is that right? Less? Yeah, it’s just this group of young artists. And the older ones, those we often pay attention to, there are maybe around 10 of them. So the ecosystem here is pretty simple, the same group of artists back and forth in these exhibitions, so it’s rather simple to form an understanding and judgment of an artist. Because it’s only a few of them, and you won’t be confused or feel the work is repetitive. I think artists in Shanghai are all quite unique.

Another fact is that a lot of artists will go “floating in Beijing”( Jing Piao“京漂”，living a floating life in Beijing while trying to pursue their dreams) , but few would “float in Shanghai”. But anyway, do you really think we need that many artists? Because the volume of an artist’s work can be really big. One artist can create a lot of things, including the quantity of the work, the projects he initiates, and the labor of his work. An artist can create a lot of works if given full opportunity. I don’t think Shanghai will ever have as many artists as Beijing though.

With your job at the gallery right now, you should be able to meet many art buyers. Can you tell us what kind of people in Shanghai are buying art works?

In fact, we have just launched our first exhibition. I didn’t get much chance to learn about the art market before. At the very beginning, I was doing storage management and office administrative jobs. But I do actually like to introduce works to people. It wasn’t until I started working at the gallery that I really started to know the prices of works. It’s my current and previous jobs that started to relate to art sales.

I think in Shanghai, of course there are many different types of collectors. Some are very professional, they may know about art works very well, maybe even better than us. There is no doubt about it. Some of them may be very well-educated, have seen good works, visited lots of artists’ studios. Their standards and judgment of art are probably higher than ours. So what we have to do is simply just bring out the work and show it to them.

There are other collectors who have a very good sense and are very intuitive about good works. We’ve met some collectors who are quite touching. They have a good sense about art. I guess the sense I’m talking about is a bit one-sided, what I mean is as long as they think the same as me. Because sometimes, there is a work that I really like, and if the collector wants to buy it, I’ll be very happy. I think one of the highest levels of appreciating a work is probably to collect and own it.

We have met some middle class art lovers too, they come from a wealthy family, they may have just started to collect art, and may not have been systematically educated about it. With these kinds of clients, it’s really necessary to explain the work to them. Usually these kinds of buyers are prepared to pay, if there is a deal.

Most of the people, even if they meet the requirements of art collection – say, they have money, space, a house to hang stuff, a place to store the works – even if they have met all these conditions, they still won’t necessarily come to buy art. Most likely it would be because people around them are buying, or a friend told them, “oh, collecting art makes me really happy” or “ the art works I collected made me a fortune.”

Sometimes, a lot of people bring their kids to see the exhibition. I think that’s the most interesting phenomenon in Shanghai. People may think appreciating art is pretentious, but I think “pretentious” here should be a positive word. Because art needs to be appreciated. You know it’s a good thing, and you should showcase your artistic taste, or cultivate your family education to appreciate art. Then day after day, you will naturally have knowledge about it. I think that’s also a way to acquire art. 

Earlier Chinese contemporary works were mainly collected by foreign buyers. Has the situation changed? Are there more local Chinese collectors starting to buy contemporary art now?

This should be a more macro phenomenon. I think what I’m saying shouldn’t be treated as universal because I’m just giving my personal opinion. As a gallery, we are one individual too. And the gallery as part of the art system is also an individual. The situation in Shanghai in relation to the whole country is only a portion. So I guess everyone will have a different experience, and this has to do with the resources this person has. If all he has on hand are foreign resources, then for sure he will sell to foreigners. But if this person’s resources are more institutional, say he has connections with very good art museums, very good collectors, then he may give you a different answer. We have been in contact with very good foreign collecting organizations too, and we have had people who see the work in the gallery and purchase it right away.

At least now it’s not like before, as if Chinese people can’t understand Chinese contemporary art, and it’s collected by foreign buyers only as a cultural phenomenon. It seems like this element is not as absolute as it was then. But if you ask me to compare the ratio or say which is the bigger part of the incoming capital, I have no clue at all. I think this needs to be done by people who are in statistics.

You said earlier that the current state of the Chinese art world needs to be questioned by people. Can you give three questions now?

For example, the creative process itself, the inner part of creation, aesthetics itself is one. We may have experienced an idea-first process. At the very beginning, what touched us was maybe those avant-garde, conceptual works. And then, after these kind of works got accepted, how can they be made more beautiful, going back to the aesthetics itself? What kind of work is considered a good work? Is there a standard for a good work? There is a lot that needs to be discussed. Every time when we talk about aesthetics, we start talking about concepts; and every time we talk about concepts, we start talking about execution…Anyway, there is a lot of work that needs to be done from the art creation itself to art criticism. There is a lot to do, and we are just starting.

Do you like your life in Shanghai?

I have never lived in any other city as long as I have lived here. If it was possible, I think life back in my hometown is not bad, but I can’t work there. There is no such working opportunity like this in my hometown. But I can live quite comfortably at home, live with my family and eat healthy food. The thing I’m most worried about now is whether I will die earlier living a lifestyle like my current one. Because I don’t eat very well, and I don’t rest well. But I guess it’s adjustable.

So I guess because I don’t have much life experience, and I have never lived in another place longer than six months… so my life now, I can’t say I like it, but there is nothing much to compare it to.

Interviewed at Zhongshan Park, Shanghai. December 2, 2013.